Forth200x meeting 2024-09-25..2024-09-27

Participants

• Welcome

• Determine the persons present / online

• Anton Ertl AE (acting chair)

• Bernd Paysan BP (remote)

• Bill Stoddart (observer)

• Francois Laagel FL

• Gerald Wodni GW

• Juergen Pintaske (remote, observer)

• Leon Wagner LW

• Peter Knaggs PK

• ruv (remote)

• Stephen Pelc SP

• Ulrich Hoffmann UH (remote)

• Willem Botha WB (remote, from 2024-09-25 15:28BST)

Brad Rodriguez missing Howerd Oakford missing Germaine Davis missing Krishna Myneni missing Willem Botha missing

• Meeting transcript

Notes taken by AE

Review of Procedures

• How do we organize this meeting?

Votes are closed at the end of the session

• Progress of current work

  • Document update (last draft is from 2019)

    Hopefully in 2025

  • Do the interim meetings help?

    Yes.

  • How can we speed up our work?

    Editor does minor changes and committee approves or disapproves (each change as one commit).

    Meetings review formal proposals

    Review informal proposals and nominate a committee member to work with the proponent to make it formal.

    Update the document section on the proposal process (Action: LW)

    Update the flowchart (Action: GW)

  • How we can better serve the Forth community?

  • How can we encourage Forthers to submit proposals?

    The meaning of the proposal should be clear to the committee, but the changesto the standard document are at the discretion of the editor.

  • What are addtional topics for future standardisation?

  • How can we better support a Forth-200x Standard Test Suite? (hand over form Gerry Jackson to a new maintainer)

    We github-fork Gerry Jackson’s test suite in the Committee account (Action: GW)

    Reorganize the test suite such that it can be split into the parts relevant for a word’s glossary entry (Action: PK, GW)

Reports

• Chair

• Editor

• Technical Officer

  Peter Knaggs passes the domains forth200x.org and euroforth.org to Forth ev. (administrative contact) and Gerald Wodni (technical contact).

• Treasurer

Election/Confirmation of officers

If you would like to stand for election, please suggest your name and please shortly introduce yourself.

We might have to elect (by secret ballot) or confirm a Chair, Editor, Technical Officer and a Treasurer.

• Chair (currently Ulrich Hoffman)
• Editor (currently Anton Ertl)
• Technical (currently Gerald Wodni)
• Treasurer (currently Bernd Paysan)

The incumbents are willing to continue, and nobody contested for any of the positions, so there is no need for a vote, and the incumbents continue until 2028. Technically it’s an uncontested election.

Review of Proposals/Contributions

Proposals can be retrieved on the fly from forth-standard.org/proposals

Please follow the links below for up to date lists of proposals and contribuions.

Proposals in the state formal

Proposals in the state informal

[345] Allow the text interpreter to use WORD and the pictured numeric output (allow-the-text-interpreter-to-use-word-and-the-pictured-numeric-output #345)

Reply by committee and moved to considered (Done: AE)

[344] Support for single line comments during evaluate (support-for-single-line-comments-during-evaluate- #344)

Reply by committee and moved to considered (Done: AE)

[343] Special memory access words (special-memory-access-words #343)

Feedback by the committee (Done: AE)

[308] Test (test #308)

Used for testing.

[305] Include a revised 79-STANDARD Specification for “><” To “Core Ext” (include-a-revised-79-standard-specification-for-to-core-ext- #305)

Retracted (Done: FL)

[302] 32-bit memory operators (32-bit-memory-operators #302)

Retracted (Done SP)

[301] 16-bit memory access (16-bit-memory-access #301)

Retracted (Done SP)

[292] Update rationale for SLITERAL (update-rationale-for-sliteral #292)

2023-03-06 00:03:30 - ruv

[212] Tick and undefined execution semantics - 2 (tick-and-undefined-execution-semantics-2 #212)

The proposal is switched to considered and r759 will be worked into the proposal. (Action: SP)

[161] Common terminology for recognizers discurse and specifications (common-terminology-for-recognizers-discurse-and-specifications #161)

This is an ongoing discussion in other proposals, and we are therefore moving it to considered (Action: GW)

[160] minimalistic core API for recognizers (minimalistic-core-api-for-recognizers #160)

We make an interim meeting exclusively for discussing this proposal. Everybody submits the comments until the end of October. New version should be ready by the end of the year. Interrim meeting in February. (Move to Considered: GW; further Action: BP)

[129] NAME>INTERPRET wording (name-interpret-wording #129)

2020-02-20 09:55:14 - ruv

[122] Clarify FIND, more classic approach (clarify-find-more-classic-approach #122)

2019-10-08 11:01:25 - ruv

[113] CS-DROP (revised 2019-08-22) (cs-drop-revised-2019-08-22- #113)

2019-09-06 08:24:28 - UlrichHoffmann

Move to considered (Done)

[90] Revise Rationale of Buffer: (revise-rationale-of-buffer- #90)

Did wordsmithing, made it formal, and put it up for committee vote #34 (Action: AE)

[75] F>R and FR> to support dynamically-scoped floating point variables (f-r-and-fr-to-support-dynamically-scoped-floating-point-variables #75)

Move to considered (Done: AE)

[71] Revised Proposal Process (revised-proposal-process #71)

The proposal will be updated (Done: LW, PK)

AE describes his idea of the process as proposal (Action:AE)

[67] Multi-Tasking Proposal (multi-tasking-proposal #67)

Mark as considered, needs new proposer (Done: GW)

[34] BL rationale is wrong (bl-rationale-is-wrong #34)

Wordsmithed a new Rationale during meeting, made formal, and started vote #35 (Action: AE)

[29] Core-ext S&quot; should reference File-ext S&quot; (core-ext-s-should-reference-file-ext-s- #29)

This is something to do for the editor (Action: AE)

[26] Implementations requiring BOTH 32 bit single floats and 64 bit double floats. (implementations-requiring-both-32-bit-single-floats-and-64-bit-double-floats- #26)

Wrote an answer and moved to considered (Done: AE)

[20] WLSCOPE – wordlists switching made easier (wlscope-wordlists-switching-made-easier #20)

Moved to considered (Done: AE)

Open requests for clarification

[364] How to perform the interpretation semantics for a word (tools, NAMEtoINTERPRET #364)

2024-09-23 15:52:38 - ruv

[359] Behavior of EMPTY-BUFFERS when BLK is nonzero (block, EMPTY-BUFFERS #359)

2024-08-12 13:32:06 - ruv

[356] State of other stacks after ABORT (core, ABORT #356)

2024-08-08 13:37:48 - ruv

[355] Temporary removing system-compilation items (usage #355)

2024-08-05 11:19:09 - ruv

[353] compile semantics or compile action of literal word (core, LITERAL #353)

2024-07-29 13:31:50 - kumaym

[352] Unspecified ambiguous condition in /STRING (string, DivSTRING #352)

2024-07-28 17:17:53 - ruv

[348] Stack diagram for {: (locals, bColon #348)

2024-07-01 12:02:00 - ruv

[346] Eliminating ambiguous conditions for Tick (core, Tick #346)

2024-06-20 15:25:45 - ruv

[342] Data type of a parameters in c! (core, CStore #342)

2024-06-11 15:56:58 - ruv

[341] Usage of the n|u data type (core, Plus #341)

2024-06-01 15:39:34 - ruv

[340] Data space seems to be used invonsistently when comparing the definitions of “character string” and “data space”. (notation #340)

2024-05-29 20:11:10 - TKurtBond

[338] (doc #338)

2024-03-29 01:18:49 - ruv

[337] Behavior of 0 SPACES (core, SPACES #337)

2024-03-04 14:46:42 - ruv

[329] are colon-defs supposed to be compiled in data space? (core, Colon #329)

2024-01-05 17:07:09 - lmr

[326] shadowed names (tools, TRAVERSE-WORDLIST #326)

2023-12-26 18:09:55 - lmr

[324] control stack clearing? (core, QUIT #324)

2023-12-24 03:10:07 - lmr

[321] NAME<INTERPRET, NAME>TO, NAME<TO (tools, NAMEtoINTERPRET #321)

2023-12-20 06:09:31 - lmr

[320] Negative n values (search, SET-ORDER #320)

2023-12-19 22:16:40 - lmr

[318] NDCS xt (search, SEARCH-WORDLIST #318)

2023-12-17 18:15:48 - lmr

[315] WORD and the text interpreter (core, WORD #315)

2023-11-27 18:02:20 - AntonErtl

[310] Why do we use +n and not u in the stack diagram for n>r and nr> (fix-stack-comments-for-n-r-and-nr- #310)

2023-09-23 01:06:43 - ruv

Workshop Topics

Workshops are topics for discussion outside the formal meeting.
We will collect topics on the fly during the meeting’s discussions.

• Document format (diff and all)

Consideration of proposals + CfV votes

Which proposals should go for vote?
Any topics for proposal in the pipeline?

FP locals. Make a proposal (Action: GW)

Workshop reports

Let’s collect the results of our workshops.

Matters arising

Whats up?

Any other business

Something else?

Adjourn

Date of next meeting

Interim meeting Thursday 2025-02-13 15:00 UTC 16:00 CET 7:00PST about recognizer proposal

If there is another EuroForth, it will be the two days before EuroForth. Otherwise it will be decided on the way.

When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?